📅 Published on: 2024-11-28 18:17:41

⏱ Duration: 01:12:54 (4374 seconds)

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📝 Video Description:

Don’t let Lucas Raymond get hot!

Tune in as (after a quick practical joke on a returning Evan Lobsinger) we cover the Detroit Red Wings and their 2 (TWO) game winning streak, including a merciful final game to get the season sweep against Patrick Roy’s New York Islanders, including Moritz Seider, Lucas Raymond, Dylan Larkin, Simon Edvinsson, and Alex Lyon’s contributions in the win (4:50), as well as Alex DeBrincat, Lucas Raymond, Cam Talbot, and Simon Edvinsson helping Derek Lalonde’s squad to win a grind of a game against the Calgary Flames (11:50).

Next, we discuss Lucas Raymond heating up and finding his scoring touch & what his upper ceiling may be offensively (23:55), as well as just how good Moritz Seider and especially Simon Edvinsson have been (28:20).

We then take a look at the NHL trade market, and whether Steve Yzerman has one or two crown jewels in Alex Lyon and Cam Talbot for teams looking to compete for the Stanley Cup (Edmonton Oilers, Colorado Avalanche, Carolina Hurricanes), what a return would look like, and whether he should even consider trading some of Hockeytown’s best players this season (or someone like Patrick Kane down the road) (35:35).

After that, Detroit Red Wings system news including Axel Sandin Pellikka leading the way in the SHL and William Lagesson maybe going a biiit too far with the Grand Rapids Griffins in the AHL (48:10).

Finally, NHL news including potential roster blow-ups for the New York Rangers (Kreider? Trouba?) and the Ottawa Senators (Stutzle? Norris?) (56:40) before we take your questions & comments in our Overtime segment (1:01:50) – enjoy!

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🕵️‍♂️ Transcript:

[Music] welcome to the wind wheel podcast the number one source for news analysis and discussion on the Detroit Red Wings the NHL and all things hockey here are your hosts Ryan Hannah Brad Chrisco and Evan Lop [Music] singer so as you know I’m now back from my extended vacation Florida North Carolina golf trip all that fun stuff a tough life man so this time we rented a house so it was a bunch of guys in a house you know having a good time and somebody mentioned the podcast I don’t even know how it came up but anyways I’m like you know you do the the whole like what it is blah blah blah and the one guy is like let’s put it on and I said no thank you I’m good and I think a lot of people hate the sound of their own voice but for me it’s just like I can’t do it no yeah and they put on the most recent one and they’re like wait a second you wouldn’t be on this episode because they wanted to hear me I was like no thank you I’m I’m very good so they went back to one of our Prospect profiles maybe it was a draft episode and specifically found me talking and turned it up as loud as they could and they made me listen to to myself talk about God knows what Prospect at that time it first playing home first play home I had to leave the room my friends do the same thing like we’ll we’ll be in the car and we’ll just be talking and then my my buddy will like casually put it on I’m just like oh I’m going to I’m going to grab this wheel and drive us into a tree the one guy who doesn’t talk all that much or he’s not like the Center focus of the group is just like he’s like that was pretty good he’s like a little bit nasly but it was good I was like I’m nasle so that was painful but I’m happy to be back I don’t feel better than I did when I left oh and you know what we all feel really bad for you man yeah it was tough it was tough Brad and I are grinding out episodes and the our group chat is blowing up with Evan going I almost aced you that Pinehurst I’m I’m going to kill this guy when he gets back here yeah it was tough but happy to be back we we did miss you although I will say it is complete and total Evan BS that you get to be on an episode after two straight wins you’re welcome this season thanks man you’re welcome all right folks Happy Thanksgiving and to our Canadian listeners happy second Thanksgiving with more food and way more football welcome to the wing wheel podcast here to talk to you about all things Detroit Red Wings hockey the world of the NHL and lots more I’m one of your hosts Ryan Hannah I’m Brad Chrisco and I’m Evan on this episode of the wind wheel podcast we’re going to cover the two Detroit Red Wings wins in a row by the 2024 2025 Detroit Red Wings wild we are going to talk about Lucas Raymond in the scoring touch that he has maybe found so far this year and what that would mean for the Red Wings will’ll also address some I didn’t really think it was that controversial but I I talked about some trade possibilities for the Red Wings and it wasn’t terribly popular with a lot of people but Detroit could have what a lot of the league wants in their goal tenders and what that could mean for them other Red Wings notes including Axel San pelica and certain Griffins who might be headed to the WWE before we jump into NHL news in overtime before all that I want to let you know first Hot Stove stories rounding the bases with Mike too and guests in benefit of the Jamie Daniels Foundation is on Tuesday January 14th tickets on sale now go to jam Daniels foundation.org it is a fantastic event it’s not just hosted by Mike too also has special guests Jason benetti Dan Dickerson Len Casper Dan Schulman enjoy their insights in-depth Sports knowledge captivating stories we’ve gone to these events in the past and it is a great great time a breakfast event so get your tickets today Jamie Daniels foundation.org secondly go to winged wheel podcast.com links to links to both tickets for winged wheel podcast night in partnership with the Grand Rapids Griffins on Saturday January 18th or winged wheel podcast night at the LCA in partnership with the Detroit Red Wings on Saturday March 29th both events come not just with access to a pre game live recording of the winged wheel podcast including special guests but for the Griffins event you get a gray beanie with the Griffins logo in the winged wheel podcast logo and for the Red Wings event you get another wind wheel podcast Detroit Red Wings co-branded Jersey this time it’s Barber pool style so more details on the links go to wind wheel podcast.com links or go to the links in the description of this episode all right let’s start us off I I think obviously we’ve talked about this quite a bit but Evan you weren’t here so Steve Eisman did his usual thing with with a trade in the middle of the night not the biggest trade in the world but still pretty significant Evan what were your thoughts when that came through just messing with you there’s no trade I was going to say must have missed that one in Florida cuz I did not see that we we Brad and I talked about this we thought it’ be funny to do I thought oh I’m yeah I thought there was like a 10% chance you might try to go with that there was no chance I was waiting for the pause and then just what yeah let’s start off with the first of Detroit’s two wins a 4-2 win against the New York Islanders which was like a carbon copy of the first go round last I should say the second go round because they’ve already played the Islanders three times this season for some godforsaken reason but a 4-2 win where goals from Mor cider in the first and then in the third period that comeback with Dylan Lin and Lucas Raymond scoring Simon Edinson stealing it what do you make of that win I’m very okay if the Red Wings and Islanders never play again don’t get me wrong I appreciate all the wins thank you Islanders for being terrible and thank you Patrick W for once again helping out the Red Wings accidentally nothing happens for the first 1550 minutes of these games nothing and like you said it was a car copy of the last Wings Islanders game where the Red Wings sleepwalked through 50 minutes of the game kind of snapped too and went oh we should probably try to win this game turn it on for 10 minutes and because the Islanders are a bad hockey team it works and they win and it’s it ends strong so you come away with positive vibes but thinking back at it those games were I know we’ve used this word a lot with the Rings this year a slog cuz just nothing happened and then Good Vibes all around to end it it’s especially tough because even on a game where the Red Wings are just average and not you know completely terrible offensively which we’ve seen them do against the Islanders when they had like nine or 10 shots on goal if they’re doing halfway okay it’s the Islanders they are so proficient at mucking it up and just clogging up Lanes we can make a soundboard of just lines and anecdotes and quick whs about the New York Islanders how they play hockey and what they do to your favorite hockey team and it was that to a tea again it was really funny because after this game there was an article I can’t remember what Islanders blog wrote it but it was like why should we have any reason to believe in this season’s New York Islanders I was like damn losing to this season’s Detroit Red Wings does that to you huh it’s but like that team isn’t playing they’re not far off from the Red Wings they don’t do things the same way I think the Islanders are really really really effective at shutting down the other team’s offense but like it is so uninspired offensively that your eyes glaze over it’s actually really nice that we Ender the first period with a goal from Detroit because like anytime you play the Islanders you’re lucky to go 10 minutes and get a couple opportunities at at soken so most Siders scored from the point in the first period big slapper from him nice to see him get his second goal of the Year feed out front from fiser on the secondary assist palmier scored in the second period and that was the Islanders leading 2-1 until the third where halfway through the period just pass halfway through the period Dylan Lin 12th goal of the season dude can’t stop scoring the turnaround shot really nice play Dylan Lin’s scoring Every Which Way he’s always been a good finisher over his entire career but he is scoring however he wants this season so turn around in front scored his 12th of the season and then Lucas Raymond tips in a Simon Edinson shot to score not long after just two and a half minutes later and that’s Detroit leading in the third it happened I think a bit earlier this time than the last time against the Islanders Simon Edson then scored a turnaround trickler empty net goal to seal it and that was the game for Detroit it was I think another strong performance from the goal tending Alex Lon made 27 saves it was a it was a good bounceback performance from him and he’s he’s had more good performances than not this year anytime Alex Lion’s been bad it’s either you know the team’s been terrible in front of him or coming back and and being Rusty in general sometimes he’s just had a rough game but I think this is still a really really great season from Alex lion so far and that’s what the redings gotten 4 two win it like is it pretty no do you take those absolutely that’s how Detroit has to win this year that’s what they did I have to point it out because this is going to be one of the very few times I get to point it out this year where the difference in this game came down to the Red Wings have more Playmakers than the Islanders they have a Dylan lker they have a Lucas Raymond they have the guys who can make plays in moments like that in a game where everybody’s trying to muck it up because don’t get it wrong the Red Wings are trying to do the same thing and yeah barzal is great and Brock Nelson is great but they’re not Lucas Raymond and Dylan Lin and that was literally the difference arguably in all three games this year they power play was a bit concerning that game like the power play which came into the game I believe six in the league went 0 for three which isn’t the worst in the world but that was over for their last 10 at that point so you’re like things are going to go from bad to worse if one of the only things providing offense for them is disappearing all of a sudden because it’s not like the PK is is doing the inverse it’s that’s still bad so that was a kind of a worrying takeaway but you’ll see in a bit it it turned around so Detroit sweeps the New York Islanders season series suck at Patrick W you like you think about the game you’re like ah that was a bit dull and then you think about how angry Patrick W must be to not just lose three times to the same team before Thanksgiving but doing it to the Detroit Red Wings like that just that warms your heart it’s small victories throughout the season that get you through the 82 games that’s a pretty big one for me I do I want to see him crash out like I want to see him get tossed from the game I want to see him rage I want to see him grabbed the dividing glass between the benches like truly enraging Patrick W there’s just nothing more satisfying as a Red Wings fan than seeing that guy collapse and he’s an alltime great man he’s an all-time great I’ll be the first to admit that but when I think of Patrick W I think of the Statue of Liberty play so that was Detroit winning against the New York Islanders it was you know good especially after the Boston game previous and then the Calgary Flames game last night night which happened not too long ago we’re recording at the Evans witching hour right now in case you haven’t noticed by by the dullness of our voices but that was a 2-1 win against the Calgary Flames which was essentially the same thing you said Brad pre- recording it was the same as the Islanders game but just inverse where the action happened mostly in front except for the end so two1 win Alex to Brink a power play goal in the first about six and a half minutes in and then nothing till overtime yeah pretty good summation of it I had before Calgary got that power play with I think it was just under three minutes left or something around there I had my game recap draft ready to go early power play goal I assume some hockey happened Red Wings win like that was again Calgary has the same Mo as the Islanders as the Red Wings they’re not a topheavy team they’re a team that has to play low event hockey grind it out muck it out rely on some good goal tending in order to get wins and Calgary’s actually been doing it very well this year they are arguably the most surprising team in the NHL this year with the record so this was by no means a gimme for the Red Wings not that any game this year is a g me for the Red Wings but they they had to earn it and the one thing I will give the Red Wings credit for in the sense that it was at least something different was they were shooting a lot this game it felt like anytime they were in a position where a shot seemed halfway reasonable they took it which is not something that has happened for a single shift this year so I don’t know if that was direct from the coaches if the players were just like yeah we got to do something if it was a coincidence a fluke I don’t know but it was noticeably different the one thing I noticed in this game last night was the team commitment to defense has not been like that this year at all guys were hard on pucks they were taking bodies they were there early taking away time and space and I think that paain a huge dividends like we have not really seen the Red Wings play structured aggressive defense all year and I think it maybe caught Calgary off guard a little bit so I think if the Red Wings can keep playing that style of defense they’re it’s going to turn around a little bit I I agree Ian their MO has been team defense and like League average defense overall in terms of outcomes is about where Detroit sits and that’s on balance with the forwards and the defense so they they have been committed to team defense but I agree like this was a really great execution from them to play what has to be their game and that’s not like it’s not always the most thrilling thing we’ve talked about this quite a bit on the show but if Detroit’s going to win with the roster they have against a better team and as Brad said Calgary’s been good this year they have to play the kind of game that Evan just described committed team defense hard on pucks make it difficult for the opposing offense and that’s what they did against the Flames not a proficient scoring team and like if you look at the balance of the game I think Detroit did play their game well but at the same time what we think in our heads is oh Calgary was dominating they got that goal in the third and then Detroit scored in overtime Detroit parked the bus in the third to to borrow a soccer term or if you’re a European listener football term please don’t come after me I just there’s been too much online lately but they they parked the bus and they let Calgary come to them and Calgary it felt inevitable and when they scored you were kind of just like well what do you expect if you’re going to do that but that’s also probably a symptom of that’s what Detroit has to do because they don’t have the Firepower to you know lean on the gas the entire time they ran out of fuel probably somewhere around the end of the second period but in all yeah I agree Detroit played the kind of game they have to play if they’re going to win games this year especially when they’re not matched well against other team on talent but they can give their maybe not proficient offense some struggles so is it fun God no uh you can point to a handful of wins this season that you said were fun the end results like obviously that goal was fun but imagine they they held on to the win in regulation the vibe would have been way less you know pumped up than if they had scored in overtime like they did with Lucas Raymond but still Detroit did did what they need to do they played their game and that’s not going to be popular with everyone this year two Power Play Goals on four attempts the first was the Alex De brinka goal scoring it Michael rasmon net front on the power play as Patrick Kane’s been out the past couple of games just kind of day-to-day he’s not too far away from playing great pass from Michael raskins really nice play and Lucas rimond had the secondary assist there yeah this was his specialty in junior we were wondering if it was ever going to translate up levels cuz he was the netf front guy in the draft like that was his thing and it hasn’t translated to the NHL but it’s good to see he hasn’t fully lost his touch around that area because I was laughing to myself because when he made that pass I went oh man that’s such a great pass from lurin and then I like double I double checked and I’m like L is tall wait what I think it I think it’s the responsible thing to do to extrapolate from this Seasons ahead like this is just you know most of the time on Power Play 2 but some of the time on power play one like that’s just I if you get that from time to time from rasmuson that’s great but just in that moment really nice play and it ended up being one of the most important plays of the game and to Brink it with his ninth goal you know de Brink is still I feel like he still misses the net or opportunities 80% as much as he did last season like it’s not like he’s just firing everything home but he is converting and he is playing that much better this year where I’m like no this is an improvement this is a step up he’s the type of guy where maybe you should just look at his the end of his season on balance and see how the stats match out because sometimes he’s shooting too much and nothing happens and then he doesn’t shoot he produces it’s such a mixed bag of what you’re seeing on the ice lining up with the counting stats but he’s been awesome this year we wanted him to shoot more that’s the bread and butter of his game and the pass rasmon gave him was amazing but it wasn’t flat he had to put that on Target and he made no mistake so the bricket has been awesome so far this year he really did look like he took a lot off that shot and was more concerned about just getting it there because he knew how far the goalie had to move rather than trying to I don’t know what to phrase it as beating the goalie yeah that’s a man who’s missed wide left a lot before thank you for saying wide left I can’t take any more wide egg jokes [Laughter] I should have know it is Thanksgiving there’s football on today that was the wheels are turning slow this morning yes they are but no it’s you’re again you’re still going to get some baffling misses from De Brink but you’d much rather have him confident enough like you said Evan to keep shooting through it and the production is there and while Dylan Lin is producing can’t be just him so that was good it was just a weird it was a weirdly refed game I felt like Connor Zer you were you were talking about it on Twitter Brad but Connor Zer took a there was a few you know embellishments maybe some some easy Falls all the biggest benefit of the doe I can give him is on the first penalty he drew probably was a penalty there but he certainly didn’t fight to stay on his feet for that one and you could tell just by how quickly he got off the I after that he’s like yeah all right I won that battle I’m getting the hell out of here before anybody stares at me for too long the second one on moad either he toe picked or it was a straightup dive because he I don’t think Mo touched him like that was that was bad and obvious and then in overtime Detroit got a power play I understand that like Calgary would argue the line change and everything I still think like if you’re in overtime you can’t have Five Guys on the ice it it was it was a big stretch to say that that wasn’t I I I know they don’t want that called but that was too many men by the book The only argument that I can see saying it wasn’t was and it’s not a good argument because we hear this for so many things in the hockey world but it happened so often why was this the one that they finally called because every team cheats on line changes in overtime I think if you have if it’s to the tune of four guys on the ice that’s probably what set it over the edge yeah because nobody touched the puck nobody really got involved in the play but yeah there was five of them there five is too many that’s too many guys that’s too many men and then Lucas Raymond pucking the slot assist from De Bret Insider on the power plate Raymond someone said Raymond knew that puck was going in before he shot it and that’s the Lucas Raymond like Lucas Raymond hero how many times have we said that this year like that’s the Lucas Raymond that we want to see back from last season fourth straight game with a goal gamewinner hero yet again remember when we said he wasn’t scoring or wasn’t shooting enough and his stats look great but he should be scoring as well yeah that’s that that’s on us right well no like he’s scoring as well now yeah I know yeah so we reverse jinst him who else do we reverse Jinx L yeah he said L wasn’t looking that great and all of a sudden he said I am actually very good at hockey and has been on a tear since I just think Eric guson you know he’s not looked that good so far no no we got to pick someone that’s actually playing [Laughter] who needs a boost you tell us let me tell you Marco Casper what a disappointment that guy is he just no he’s he’s he’s doing all the right things but you really just thought that production would be no Casper’s been great so far this season Cas you don’t know the B so i’ I’ve Got a Theory though getting back to Lucas Raymond if we can somehow manipulate the scoreboard for him to only think it’s the last 10 minutes of the third period or overtime he would score 75 goals he only scores Big Time goals he conserves his energy for Big Time moments he’s he’s Leo Messi in the Midfield he’s not running unless he needs to he’s conserving his energy like that’s yeah that was very he he’s oh what’s the guy’s name Ashton Genty he’s just kind of standing there until the ball is in front of him at an important moment he’s standing there menacingly he’s feeling it right now man so that’s the Detroit Red Wings they won that game as well that’s two straight wins they have New Jersey on Friday ma game 300 p.m. and then Sunday another mat game 12:30 p.m. against Vancouver on December 1st and we’ll be back with you right after that game finishes and there’s also going to be a fun interview on next episode as well so stay tuned for that one so that’s the Red Wings good good for them to grind out points like I I know it sounds silly to say but points aren’t coming easy to this team and they won in ways that are difficult to do and require like Evan said a lot of really great team defense hard on the puck scoring in the right moments you’re not going to win a lot of games scoring you know two goals but when you can do it you are going to do it and cam talet came up great for Detroit last night as well Alex lion tweaked something in practice soilo was up backing up but cam talat stopping 24 Shots and that’s that’s how Detroit’s winning this year when they are that’s how they’re doing it so kind of fun to be recording after two straight wins it’s it’s a little bit of a tone shift I want to keep talking about Lucas Raymond though because as Evan said like oh we were saying he he’s been playing great but the goals haven’t been there and to start it was fine because it just felt like a a numbers thing but after that we were like no he’s actually not shooting again and that’s a problem and he needs to feel it he needs to feel confident in his shot he needs to be producing because that’s what makes him an all around really great Dynamic offensive player cuz Lucas Raymond is not just hockey IQ and vision he can fire it he can rip it he can beat goalies he can beat goalies through screens he can beat goalies with with very little time with the puck on his stick Lucas Raymond’s feeling it right now and it’s it’s four games I know it’s a great four- game goal streak but I really like you watch Lucas Raymond you’re like that’s the Lucas Raymond who is in a Groove and that is a big big thing for the Detroit Red Wings offense well even on that overtime goal you could just tell when that puck rimmed around to him and he stepped into the middle I don’t think there was a thought of a pass in his head that whole time he knew the lane he was going to have stepped into it he like I can beat this goalie from here and he was right and that is not something we have seen from him before this recent streak that would have been him probably slowing down a bit taking his time looking for a pass which in a fouron three maybe there’s a pass there but just the confidence of I can get him I can beat him from here he’s got six goals six 16 assists 22 points in 22 games this season I think anyone would look at this season and say yeah 82 points or anywhere near a point per game is an excellent season for Lucas Rond I think we said something similar you know this is a guy who’s still continually approving like he is a weapon like he is I I do see north of what he’s on Pace for right now as a possibility for him regularly in his prime it’s going to take like it’s hard to do when you don’t have the most complete offense around you but as we’ve pointed out in the past it was a few episodes ago where Brad said like the Red Wings power play is probably so proficient a part of that is because they’re not a deep team but their best players can hang with the other team’s offenses for the most part so he is playing with Detroit’s best offensive players but just imagine how much better his numbers will get when the rest of the team is more complete around him as well matchups are a big thing and every team is going to coach the Red Wings right now to match up the Lin and Raymond line yeah because it’s all they have to do there’s no other five on five threats on this team and most teams are probably comfortable throwing their second or third pair out against any of the Red Wings other three lines they don’t bat an eye at it they don’t worry about it they play the game to all right our top pair our top shutdown line needs to be out there against this line yeah they’re doing a lot on the power play which obviously is a man advantage and you expect good players to be able to manipulate that and they are but if the Red Wings can get a legitimate second third line now Lin and Raymond aren’t looking at these matchups time and time again and the Red Wings coaching staff isn’t trying to overthink ways to get them away from the matchups obviously at home they have that Advantage it it does create and and we’ve all been on benches as coaches are calling out lines and changing things on the Fly it’s a lot easier when you can just go out there and play right and you don’t have to worry am I getting the Top Line am I getting the second line are we playing a 15-second shift cuz we want to get out against this second pair and yada yada y all that line every hockey player knows line matching every player hates line matching when they’re on the bench so there are a couple small things that could still free up to make their lives even easier than it is well it’s not easy at all right now but to lead to more offense for them I yeah I always got line matched against it was terrible for me when I play bet yeah you ever a line match against a defenseman that’s how that’s the kind of threat it was no in all seriousness like that’s for Lucas Raymond it’s it’s the gauntlet right now as he’s kind of getting not used to it he’s he’s a player he’s he’s through his entry-level contract I don’t mean to imply that he’s a rookie or anything but this will pay dividends further down his career it’s incredibly tough minutes the same way Mo cider and now Simon edenson are playing like it’s tough minutes to play you don’t really get eased into the NHL but he is going to be battle tested and hardened for when like you said Brad teams just don’t have the players to line match against him and the rest of his team the same way anymore so when reinforcements come it’s not just going to be that the Red Wings have better players it’s that their best players are now they get to breathe a little bit more speaking of which and speaking of things that sound like a recording moider and Simon Edinson and I don’t want this to sound like a slight against moider but it’s just that he we know how great he is but Simon Edinson on that Top Line playing moider duties God they they look so good and he looks so good considering where he’s at in his career like you look at their underlying numbers yes that’ll prove to you what I’m talking about but just watch them like what no one should have that kind of confidence at their age playing in the NHL first pairing defense nobody they’re numbers are like this is one of the worst offenses in the league maybe the worst fiveon five offense in the league period and their numbers when they’re on the ice like they’re among the top de pairings in terms of their offensive impacts when when they’re playing together that’s why and their defensive numbers are among the best in the league among all pairings when they’re playing together that’s insane I can see the title of his biography now Simon Edinson colon the audacity like genuinely it’s a game changer for the Rings we talked about it all off season that if this guy can come in and be anywhere close to most mider it changes the Outlook of this team going forward because again we knew how good mider is we know to a reasonable degree of confidence that Axel sandine pelico what he’s going to be so who is going to be that other you know guy oh it’s very obviously Simon Edinson now he’s essentially a rookie if he was called her eligible he’s right up there with celebrini and mechkov and stankov for like probably to be a finalist Lane Hudson wouldn’t be the top rookie defenseman right now zero goals Lane Hudson I just want to say that but the head fakes per 60s off the chart I feel like making enemies today apparently no I want it I want it on record I really really really like Lane Hudson I actually love watching Lane Hudson Montreal fans have ruined him for me surprise nobody’s surprised by that but it is maddening but either way just come home to Michigan Lane Simon Evanson mider has the potential to be and this isn’t a light statement the best pairing in the NHL for the next 5 to 10 years like if they as time goes on as they get older and they mature and they build more chemistry together and it’s the team around them gets better like quite literally the sky is the limit for them and that’s not a tall joke they both have the elite traits to do what they’re doing doing now and there’s nothing out there that says they’re going to regress from where they are now it’s only up and what we talked about with Lucas Raymond like oh hardest minutes battle Harden that’ll pay dividends later in his career that’s one thing for offense for forwards like you Brad but for us you know unappreciated Martyrs on the ice like Evan and I the defenseman like tough minutes mean like that’s what you are playing you are playing against the other team’s best players and for Simon Edinson and mider to be doing that playing among the league hardest minutes right now like we say the first 200 games or so is what you need to establish what a defenseman is if those first 200 games are against the mcdavid’s and the Matthews Al he’s off in Germany right now or or the other teams you know best offensive Firepower that you see on the first page of the NHL stats charts once you get past 200 games and after you look great for those 200 yeah you’re not wrong Brad that’s that’s best in the league territory you’re in the upper echelon of defenseman I think we have to give the coaching staff some credit on this one because cider and edenson started off on opposite pairings this year they were thought they had to spread the talent out and they took the it they took the risk of putting two young defenseman on the top pairing and saying let’s see if it works and it did so that pairing has been unbelievable it’s hard to believe how if if you just took someone who didn’t watch hockey you’d be like watch these guys how old do you think they are they would not think that they’re anywhere near the age that they are so like you guys said the sky the limit has been a real treat to watch both of them this year and every like you said the maturity but Brad what you pointed out in terms of like they’re kind of unicorn they are unicorns in terms of their talent since when are you going to play against defensemen who are that big that tall okay you beat them and you now have to worry about their mile long stick you know retrieving the puck back I’ve seen both of them do it multiple times in the last hand of games like that oh you you get beat as a defenseman which happens all the time and you have a second third opportunity to get the puck back even if you are a step and a half behind that’s not a thing for most guys they have that physical ability you can’t teach size unfortunately as Brad has discovered in this life but then you also have the soft touch and the silky hands and the offensive Acumen and the ability to transport the puck and the good skating like there’s no tool really that is lacking to say that they won’t be among the best in the league so we could sit here and just talk about how great Lucas Raymond is and and how great Simon Edon and mider have been this season and we’re going to have to keep doing things like that because that’s that’s what Red Wings fans can really rely on gaming and game out okay more on the Red Wings maybe more controversial than what we’ve been talking about after this but first let’s hear from the sponsors of the winged wheel [Music] podcast this episode of The Winged wheel podcast is proudly brought to you by laat Blue Light created in 1983 this premium light Canadian pilzer is a delicately balanced beer brewed with Cascade hops in a blend of malt it’s fresh crisp and Brew to the highest quality standards there’s a little bit of Canadian kindness in every sip of labat blue light how did it get in there they’re Canadian that’s how you can spread the love yourself by sharing a labat and when you do share a laat you’re not just sharing a beer you’re sharing an experience that’ll pair with anything from hockey to a ho down so next time you’re watching hockey with your buds be sure to share laat because while you might not all root for the same team although we on this podcast 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the person walking in the room saying guess who just got yelled at no why you like this this man refuses to let a conversation happen on a podcast sorry that’s staying in now that’s well Evan’s here folks anyways that was me I I honestly thought it was a throwaway thought because you have some of the best teams in the league and I I mean by these teams have the talent to be competing for the Cup by and large you have Carolina who’s been on an absolute heater this year terrible luck with Goal tending injuries whether it’s a go tender who always gets injured or the backup or the backup’s backup whatever you have Colorado who’s been trying to figure this out for since they won their cup even when they won their cup it wasn’t really with great goal tending and you have the Edmonton Oilers who are wondering are we really going to do this again with steuart Skinner or are we going to get some help here and I’m watching this and I’ve said this before on the podcast and those are just the three examples I come to mind I’m sure there’s more but the Red Wings have Alex Lion on an expiring deal that is south of $1 million on the cap that is a dream scenario for another team trying to acquire a player that is integral to get them into and move them through the playoffs there’s no commitment beyond the season the cap hit is legitimately negligible wave one player and you have saved more than enough money as long as they’re making more than 1.15 or whatever it is and you have a guy who could and has proven that he can get you into and steal you games in the playoffs and then you have Cam talbat who has proven that his success last season wasn’t just because La was great defensively but also because he is just a great goalie even late in his career he is steady he is solid he is a you know stabilizing force and when you have a goenda tile say Skinner who when he’s on is I think good enough to win games but when he’s off is definitely bad enough to lose you games well you throw a cam tablet in there and then all of a sudden you’re not worried about wasting another year of Conor mcdavid’s Prime as much as as you were before and I’m not add I I want to qualify this by saying these have been two of if not the best Red Wings players so far this season the Red Wings get worse without them so I’m not advocating to trade them unless and this is the big if this could be a year where there’s these special confence of events where you have good enough goalies with tradable enough contracts and teams are desperate enough to give you a lot for them goalie trades are weird trading in general is weird you can almost never pin down what the value will be but this could be an especially Hot Market where Detroit has one or more and if this happens in all likelihood it’s just one of them not both to get a strong return and I the only way I’m for this is if there turn is strong because if the trade is for like a middling pick like a third or no there’s not really a point to that I’d rather keep the goalies but if you can get something better than that I think that could be on the table this season I think you could potentially pillage a team who has some strong assets that they don’t need right now and say hey you want to win the Stanley Cup that’s the ultimate goal you’re going to have to pay a big price which is a premium so there’s a couple questions we have to answer first and everybody listening can play along because it’s going to determine what you do next what percentage chance do you give the Red Wings of making the playoffs this year 15 well you know what it feels like the entire East sucks this year so it’s probably higher than that but 15 is probably generous it’s so hard to say because the Atlantic is to steal word from the kids they’re so mid right now mid’s generous like the whole Atlantic yeah so I think it’s probably north of 15 30 makes me uncomfortable I’ll say 23 I think we’re being nice right now because it’s Thanksgiving and according to was it Dom’s model had them under 5% to do it so that’s before they beat the Islanders and Calgary so this is fair but those as happy as we are about those wins it’s probably worth reminding everybody those were the Islanders and Calgary Flames oh Calgary’s been good this year go ahead midnight Midnight’s coming go ahead Brad but this season is in all likelihood I’m not going to call it a write off because there’s still a lot to play for this but winning is not likely going to be the main objective by the end of the season so there is no need to keep anybody on a oneyear contract so that makes Alex lying available if you are one of the people out there who went yeah it ain’t happening this year next season what do you think are the expectations for the Detroit Red Wings playoffs I I don’t know I would they said playoffs this year uh did they though a lot of the fans said playoffs but even Eisman and one of his preseason pressers said it’s not the only objective well you either you either miss the playoffs or you don’t like you can’t no I know 5050 every year on whether you make the playoffs can’t have one foot on both side of the fence we’ve seen teams do that forever but the expectation coming into the season Steve Eisman said he’s like look I’d love to sit here and say playoffs are the measure of success but he said it diplomatically but he essentially stated what everyone was looking at with the roster which is yeah it’d be nice to be where we were last year but this isn’t the roster to be guaranteeing playoffs well either either way because it’s a question that everybody’s going to answer differently which is kind of the point if you think that the expectations next year might not be playoffs cam Talbot’s on the table for a trade this year if your expectations are playoffs next year cam talet is off the table for next year right now can I interject I don’t think it is playoffs that dictate whether cam tal bat’s on the table Sebastian kosa is probably ready next year and you want a steadying veteran Force next to Sebastian COA this is also a very very good point but you can always find that in fre agency it just likely won’t be to the level of Cam toit which is kind of the point I’m getting at because veteran goalies are a dime a dozen veteran cheap goalies are a diamond dozen veteran cheap goalies who are performing to the level of Cam talbet are rare So if your expectation is we want to win some games we want to bring kosa up and we’d like to shelter him a little bit because he’s probably only going to want to not want to he’s going to want to play 82 games but he probably only should play 20 to 30 Games next year you need cam tbet so I fall in the same category as you where I’m not saying they necessarily need to make the playoffs next year but the expectation next year should be to win should be to insulate kosa so for me I’m not trading talbat this year unless the return is astronomical however lion is I’m probably actively shopping him to those three or four teams right now now saying okay highest bidder gets him because you all need a goalie right now and it is a unique Confluence of events where this many contenders teams with genuine Stanley Cup aspirations suck in net so bad Carolina is a little different because their guys are going to get healthy eventually they need a stop Gap will they with Freddy Anderson who knows but the expectation is they get healthy uh Colorado’s goalies are just horrible they don’t have an internal solution right now Edmonton has awful go ending and they do not have a solution in house right now so they are the two I’m looking at going Alex lion completely changes the Outlook of their season for the better and if the returns good enough they help change the Outlook of the Red Wings for the future I I don’t think you’re getting a first round pick for lion but I also don’t think that’s completely out of the question with how desperate some of these teams are that’s where I’m at too especially if they’re baking on their being like 25 or later these teams are going to say if we’re trying to win the Stanley Cup if we’re not willing to give up pick 27 or 32 for the Stanley Cup then what are we doing here because you’d almost never think that way with first round picks until you are in the highest of high you’re in the S tier of teams competing for the cup and then you have to have honest conversations with yourself where I do differ from you Brad is I think I lean more into unless the return is really strong you don’t do it because I do think there’s value to bring lion back next season and then you have Cam Talbot for one more year at least you have Alex lion for however long you sign him for and then you have Sebastian kosa that if Sebastian kosa does great makes the team awesome you have a great problem on your hand you have a dealable goalie and you’ll trade him we’ve been saying that for two years now so I understand how stupid I sound to say it hasn’t worked for us before but it might just work for us like I I I know it takes some doing there but Alex lion is a good enough goalie word that’s not hard to do or Cam Tabet or whatever I agree though this could be where the return could get silly it could be a premium Prospect I don’t mean like the world’s best Prospect but maybe a first round pick maybe a high-end Prospect maybe you package it and and get a bigger return like you can do something here if you don’t think you’re bringing back any player on this team as you alluded to Brad and that player is not going to factor in the future and you are not going to make the playoffs and you know the season isn’t about you’re just mathematically not likely to get there then yeah the responsible thing to do is deal them you improve your draft pick probably by being worse this year and you get a return but this is Detroit’s best bet if they have one this season of a team giving them something big and it’s worth mentioning because I can hear everybody screaming cam TBA can’t play 82 listen I understand vly huso struggles and everything Jack Campbell has gone through but those are two guys who have proven in the NHL they are capable backups they’re not going to steal you a lot of games they’ll probably lose you so Philly huso has already lost Detroit some yes but it’s not like you’re throwing a complete unknown in there and they’re going to get shelled for five goals every game you’re going to get good games out of them and yeah Talbot’s going to share the brunt to the workload which is what your starter is supposed to do and I think it’s very very clear at this point cam Tal’s a starter so it’s not like you’re moving on from Alex line and then going what now you have two internal Solutions are they great Solutions no but if your expectation for this year is no longer playoffs again I hate talking about this because I twitch just every time we bring it up this season’s tanked like throwing hu out there helps add pick listen we live through the James Rhymer experience I think we can live through this experience exactly it’s the most likely outcome is that neither get dealt like just because it’s the NHL and oh NHL trades are hard Ryan we hear from GMS all the time it’s hard to make a trade super duper I’m surprised anybody’s ever made a trade and deals for goalies almost they’re very they’re hard to predict and when they happen it’s not what you expected a lot of the time so I think you know don’t Bank on anything but at the same time this could be where a surprise happens again I can’t emphasize this enough and I probably it’s still probably going to get lost here but not advocating to trade them just for anything I’m saying they could be positioned to Garner a massive return nobody said trade Philip ponic no and the return once we knew the return we all kind of nodded our head and said yeah had to do it this guy has not missed a beat because who are we talking about next is Axel sandine pel part of the return for Philip ponic and the segue right themselves it’s it’s the dynamic element we were missing 100% Axel sandine pel leads the shl in scoring among all defensemen as a child seven goals 12 assists in 22 games just more highlight reels every single night for him we talk a lot about you know the other Bell nikov amadas Lombardi you can’t really talk about reding’s prospects without regularly checking in on Axel sandine pelica and how he’s doing because we talk about the Red Wings right side right now and nothing behind most cider and I still do think they need help for the immediate future but ASP is not far behind and there’s never a guarantee with prospects but he’s looking so good and talk about a dynamic element He has the number one element you want every hockey player to have Elite hockey sense the guy the dude just knows how to play hockey what to do when to do it positioning spacing timing like it those are his best traits and they are the hardest traits to get in a hockey player the way he can manipulate the offensive Blue Line the way he can manipulate the Defenders around him and yeah he’s only 5’11 and he’s not huge but defensively he can have hang like he’s in the right spots because again he’s smart yeah he’s going to lose some Puck battles and yeah some passes are going to get through him because he just doesn’t have their reach there’s obvious downsides to a 511 defenseman but he has everything you want to make up for it I think it was in Max’s article I forget which Red Wings brass member he was talking to was saying yeah all were concerned about with sending pel defensively is just getting stronger he’s like we like his defending he’s just got to get stronger and then you combine that with his Elite and I mean Elite offensive Acumen like this this dude could be a dude this isn’t just going to be a guy and that’s I know we’re getting in too deep go on we we got we got to speak hockey guy here to really emphasize the point like as if we’re not he could be a man yeah you know I was actually yelling at another car on the road the other day and Mel afterwards was like you know I sometimes forget you grew up in hockey dressing rooms cuz oh boy yeah so yeah yeah Cindy pel is not just a guy he could be a dude and again you look at the current Red Wings team and system and mider does it well I think Simon edon’s got the potential to do it okay but they don’t have that Elite offense coming from the Blue Line anywhere else in the system but sandine pel like again you talk about things that change the Outlook of this team now not everybody who lights up the shl at this age comes over and dominates Nils lung fist is who Sandy pelica is chasing down for this u20 defensive scoring record so he’s an NHL player but he he didn’t bring over the numbers but if he is what we think he is again the top three defenseman on the Detroit Red Wings are set for the better part of a decade maybe longer and we had a really great conversation with Max last episode and I encourage you to go back and listen for all the pain right now the future is slotting in very very nicely you want a dynamic element on the blue line in the Red Wing system William logison splitting time between the AHL and WWE got suspended three games for choking a guy out I wish there was more to it than that there’s not he had a guy in a choke hold who literally had to tap out as the ref was watching I understand the offic don’t get into fights and it’s for linesmen but if a guy’s being choked you go in and you say hey pal let’s not do a felony today I watched that someone sent me the the clip and you know that was the title like logus made this guy tap out and I went oh probably just a scrum like you know headlock oh no that’s a yeah he’s oh yeah that guy can’t breathe you can’t do that man the technique was great he had the full like he got the elbow under the neck he locked it in he didn’t put the hooks in with his legs though so I don’t love the lack of detail there if you really really want to win in Elite UFC competition you can’t miss details like this sure it’ll work at this level but he still got the win you get to the NHL guys like Brady kachuck they have the ground and pound they can pass I don’t know any of like they’re elad Grapplers yeah I don’t know if it’s just cuz I watched the iron claw on my on the flight home or something but then I got off the plane and saw that headline and I was like did I go through a Time Warp in the sky or something like that you’re now in a Greco ran Universe yeah it was bizarre to read that and then you see it and you’re like it’s exactly what you thought it was unbelievable you can’t do that can’t even even coming from me you can’t do that yeah which hold on we haven’t got there yet say the line I love violence but if you’re if you’re if Evan says you can’t do that before he says I love violence that’s actually the best that’s the best measure should this be a suspension call 11an lob singer you know you see a hundred of these like massive hits in the NHL every year and everyone’s up in arms and I would say 99% of them I’m like okay yeah it’s it’s fine by me this one you know just a little bit over the line three games seems fair to me but the one thing I’ve noticed about Grand Rapids this year is they’re they I think they have more fighting Majors now than they did all last year like this team does not take part of my French [ __ ] from anybody they are all they’re like the Florida Panthers light out there in the AHL they they passed the punk test they set the punk test it’s it’s very fun to watch yeah forget passing the punk test you’re right they’re the ones issuing it like they’re wal white they are the the schard bullies yes welcome to the Thunderdome mother and you know yeah it’s it’s so fun to watch and maybe this is going back to when Edinson just dummed that guy in Grand Rapids last year and everybody’s like well that was fun yeah like to draw probably a little bit too much seriousness for this in the morning but you look at what Dan Watson has built over there it’s not just a talented team this is a team that’s playing for each other sometimes a bit too intensely like in this case but they are a fun watch I also love like you get through all those players and everyone’s scrapping and you still have to worry about Sebastian kosa at the end of it like fighting you mean yeah like if you’re an opposing player like Sebastian kosa if you do something to piss him off he’ll he’ll throw one at you you know what’s a team that could really really use this kind of attitude the Red Wings correct that’s why it’s so it’s promising promising to watch because I think a lot of the guys sort of leading that charge and I’m sure there’s Grand Rapids insiders who would probably feel a little bit different but it’s a lot of the younger guys leading that charge I think Austin Watson being on that team is definitely provided did a lot of the toughness as well cuz I think he has five fighting Majors already but it’s good to see like you need to sort of build that confidence that you’re not going to get bullied around in a pro league and like these guys are coming up like the Marco caspers are coming up and they’re not scared by what’s happening in the NHL Marco Casper gets targeted after a lot of whistles you notice that he doesn’t back away he doesn’t back away at all cuz he’s used to it and that’s the kind of thing that makes the difference for guys who have to come in and hold their spot and maybe have a lot of talent but not you know star Talent right away if the NHL players can will and do Bully young talented rookies out of their lineups because they just can’t hang physically it’s it’s setting the tone for the nice I miss I love shy man but it’s setting the tone for these guys before they make it this this all going back to yeah the three games probably Fair seems fair for L okay quick NHL news everyone sucks this year everyone sucks this year in the NHL apparently and you have teams near the bottom of the standings so we’re like wow we suck and this is bad and you have teams who are like positioned so well in the standings and they’re like like the New York Rangers and they’re like we got to blow it up and they’re talking about tra trouba and they’re talking about krider’s name is out there and then you have the Ottawa Senators who again I said at the start of the year I understand they have the talent I don’t know why we’re all of a sudden projecting them to be you know top of the Atlantic until they do it they’re struggles are worse than Detroit’s this year and they’re talking about making like there’s news out there and if there’s a news out about a Canadian team in a such a specific way it’s Canadian hockey media operates in a certain way they’re talking about making massive like team shakeup moves like big big names being on the board Josh Norris’s name is out there and that might be like a light version of what they’re doing what’s happening in the NHL and is there an opportunity for Detroit anywhere in here with those two teams specifically no I mean the phrase coming out of Ottawa was everybody but kachuck is available sure call up see what they want for Tim studa see how that goes ottawa’s in a unique position because they’re young their core is up and a lot of them are overpaid those are like don’t get me wrong I like Josh Norris I’m not touching him with that contract I I Ottawa could offer him to Detroit for free I’d say no he’s just it’s a classic case of a player who’s good but paid too much the Rangers and Chris juryman I think if anybody around the league has embraced the Vegas ruthlessness it’s him because we remember the barlay goodro incident where he said we’re trading you to San Jose and he went no trade clause nope and he’s like all right you’re on waivers and guess who’s got first pick in the waiver order welcome to San Jose buddy and you know what did Vegas do and what do a lot of look around professional sports the the elite we’ll call them ruthless teams do when a player is really really good and they make a lot of money the second they start to fall off Gone Chris kryder has zero assists this season nine goals in 19 games I think they might have played a game since those stats were but whatever he makes a lot of money for two more years after this one it’s probably beneficial to the Rangers to not have that contract on the books Jacob trouba they can find a lot better ways to spend $8 million this year than Jacob trouba and The Catch 22 with both those players is yeah the Rangers are going to have a hard time offloading them because of those contracts but at least they’re embracing the philosophy like okay we need to get better we want to win we’re a good team but we probably don’t win the Stanley Cup as we stand right now so we need to get even better and again you have to walk that fine line of you’re so ruthless in doing so much underhanded stuff players don’t want to play for you in the future but if you’re winning players will come and you’re New York City you’re going to get players so I respect it I am skeptical that they will be able to do a lot based on just how everything’s constructed and with Ottawa again I respect the willingness for change I’m skeptical they’ll be able to do anything there is some solace in the fact that yeah Detroit’s not having the best season but really it’s kind of expected if you look at the roster a bit more unlucky I shouldn’t say unlucky a bit more discombobulated at five on five offense than I would have predicted even with a regression factored in but by and large like you look at that roster you’re like this isn’t going to be a world beater to see other teams so out of sorts you’re like okay you have some time here and I don’t mean this season this season we’ll see what happens it’s all still very tight anything can change but for the path down the road it’s not like these teams like the Buffalo and the Ottawa they’re running away with it like Detroit is going through the same struggles as everyone else and that’s you don’t like to go slow but if you’re going slow you want your competitors to be going slow too I definitely think the Rangers need to make a a bit of a change because they’ve been running it back on the literally on the back of all World gold tending and it hasn’t worked but I also wonder how much of that is just publicly calling out two specific guys who have more in the tank because like Brad said you can’t really move those guys easily so is this just trying to you know put a shot in the arm to get them going a little bit more because they are one of the Premier teams in the league so it’ll be interesting to see how that plays out so how are you going to movees the Bandon J to make your team better you know like it’s it doesn’t make the calculus of a a team who’s trying to compete for the cup right now it doesn’t work so yeah that’s it’s a good point Evan okay we are going to save some time for overtime on this episode of The Winged wheel [Music] podcast we’re going to overtime overtime in this episode of the wind wheel podcast is brought to you by our patreon supporters patreon.com podcast if you want to support the show you get access to bonus overtime episodes which record right after these main ones and in addition to any other bonus content that we create you get access to our patreon exclusive Discord and you’re automatically entered into to all of our giveaways we give away two tickets to every Detroit Red Wings home game all of them going directly to our patreon supporters so again patreon.com whe podcast for all of that and more all right let’s take some questions from our patrons Chim Kim net says is there any reason to believe this is the season Eisman swings of BigTime rebuild defining trade also it is officially American Thanksgiving put on your Gro protection and burn some incense because December starts Sunday hey you know what next episode is in the wing whe podcast studio right behind Brad is going the Brad siiz Christmas tree the Festivus poll will be over here that’s right and you two should say wow Ryan what resolve you have to hold that Christmas tree out for all of November and respect that we are not doing this we’re about to get off the rails completely but I looked at my calendar for Sunday and there is a large thing that says put up Christmas decorations and I did not put it in there no that is Katherine saying yeah yeah well I just got to point out right now how many full size Christmas trees do you have in this house right now they’re not all up this year cuz you know getting ready to move and stuff but two full size one small Studio tree one pencil tree that’s the same number of Christmas trees I have up right now step up your game you’re the Christmas guy wait yeah but if have you heard his doorbell they they haven’t given me the new Chimes yet for the year I know wow daily emails haven’t worked they blocked me sorry that’s my fault yeah you’re you’re getting equaled by the Grinch over here I need you to know that look we we’re game planning what it’s going to be when we have a little bit more real estate to work with is this the season to believe that there’s going to be a big rebuild defining trade you’re in the phase of the Red Wings where you can expect that eisan is going to be seeking to do that is there anything special about this season that says it’s going to happen this season I wouldn’t say in particular no no I agree I think we’re at the point and we’ve been there for a bit of that trade could happen any day because they are in that phase but when you look at what’s out there I just don’t see it right now man USA Fan Man Adams says let’s face it the Wings play better without Patrick Kane he’s slow loses the puck all the time and it isn’t producing much he is impactful in the power play with entries and passing what’s the temperature to move on from him so the Red Wings won to without Kane and Kane’s been interesting this year because you look at you know five on five numbers a lot of the time it’s like oh I wish the redings had produce five on five better to take advantage of Patrick Kane more well part of it Patrick Kane’s not been that great five on five overall he’s had his moments and I think he’s been like turning it on as the season has gone on yes power play obviously but he’s a it’s a special case he brings such unique talent that even for his deficiencies it’s worth it to try to work with it on your lines and what this shows is that compared to last season the Red Wings have a slotting issue where last season they could get the kind of guys in and around Kane or on the line that Kane wasn’t on so you weren’t just kind of burying your second line to take advantage of his abilities this season hasn’t been so easy for Detroit on offense so when that suffers it’s going to make it so you’re not really utilizing Kane to his full ability so I’m not going to say Kane is holding the Red Wings back no but I do think this version of the Red Wings is not able to take advantage of what he’s able to do to his fullest so if this goes off the rails and let’s say you’re like yeah it’s by January February like it’s right off then you’re looking to move Kane but yeah I I I think the optimal result is what you had last season where you’re optimizing him okay shaie Pat in the Hat says guys I played hockey when I was really young can someone explain to me the Strategic advantages of attacking the puck on the PK versus laying back and shuttling away screeners so two things go into this one you can get away from attacking the puck on the PK if you are an elite coverage team and you play a Zone really really well in the sense that all you’re going to be giving up then is distance shots and a lot of teams do do that well where yeah you can have the puck around the perimeter all you want nothing’s getting to the middle and sure every once in a while a point shot might get tipped and but it’s a low percentage shot so most teams are happy to do that the Red Wings are not that te they are not capable of being an elite Zone team the game of hockey is one and lost on mistakes more than people want to admit it and the more you pressure the more you force mistakes the more you force errant passes the more you force a bad read basically you’re taking away time and space to screw up their decision-making process and the more and more you can do that the more and more mistakes they’re going to make and the more and more mistakes they make the more you’re going to clear the Zone that’s the whole point of it is I am going to pressure to throw them off cuz you’re not going to get the puck 90% of the time but like and M’s coach teaching 8ye olds to do this like to be a heavy pressure team because you don’t need to get the puck if they do something dumb with it Johnny says thanks dudes welcome back Evan and Happy Thanksgiving everyone okay last one here Joseph Barry says are you bridging Edinson when you can or longterm longterm the minute I can because one that’s just the better thing to do and two you have that cider internal ceiling to work with for defensive numbers and what you’re paying him and there’s a chance Edinson could justify a larger contract than Cider on ability and production and if not if he gets to cider’s level well if the cap goes up as much as we’ve been talking about then it’s going to justify a big number so longterm as soon as you can okay we’re going to wrap up this episode of the wind wheel podcast we’re going to be back with you on Sunday after the conu game thank you all so very much for tuning in thank you to the sponsors of the wing wheel podcast to all of our listeners new and old we appreciate you your ears your eyes it’s well if you’re staring at us this early in the morning bless you and you know maybe visit the optometrist after or don’t because we appreciate 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cider Dylan Lin trade sacrifice Eric Nance Evan Beckner welcome back Evan Frank Stanley Jean Sullivan gsky griffy boy James Pridmore Jeremiah Doo Jim JM rapidy Joey Jojo shabadu Josh yelton chaotic monkey Kenan o Donahue Casper the unfriendly ghost Kevin McCracken quas lens’s loyal leming Les Grossman’s ungodly Firestorm Linda Hull Lucas Rond oil as good as a gets Ryan M shaie Patt and the hat Steven that other guy the hodeg the Hat 123 Trent thorough Wings fan and St Louis Scott your second favorite Patron thank you also very much shaie welcome to the dubdub club we have to go do some exorcisms from Brad and Evans stomachs thanks for tuning in to the winged wheel podcast be sure to visit Wing wheel podcast.com where you’ll find links to subscribe to the show on Apple podcast Spotify YouTube or wherever you get your podcast you’ll also find ways to support the show like patreon official podcast merchandise and more and don’t forget to follow us on X at Wing wheel pie at Ryan Hannah wwp 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