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and the bench to bench change head in the air to deep right field back and the she get out of here baseball he SC oh my God can you believe it Johnny B is tiying it have the Cincinnati Reds win the World Series in four straight it was a sweep in the dirt it’s a wild P Here Comes Bost the win the pen Clarkin won the game that ball is fair Cincinnati’s ahead two games tonight welcome Joe Randa to Cincinnati Adam dun has done it again benzing are backing and calling and the 1990 World Championship belongs to the Cincinnati red yes this is Adam from Milwaukee hey Adam how you doing I’m good how are you good do you think scottberg is a good player done up there with the bases loaded the Outfield deep and around toward right and the one oh on the way to the plate swing on long drive right field and this one Bel do the r and a high drive hit back into deep right field Junior has just knocked the door down for the 500 clock def first home run is a work on winner that ball had a family and Bor Cruz is oh my goodness look at this kid run my oh my that is a Triple M CL first big league bom Spencer steer first big league hit is a home run to straightway center field Joey bto’s done it again the pitch Botto swings high in the air right field yes he pointed to the Dugout to say I told you that is Joey votto’s 315th career go ahead rivy only Johnny Bench had more as a red and I can’t tell you how much it means to play in front of everyone here in Cincinnati as a red what a gift what a tremendous gift so thank you thank you I think I can speak for all of Red’s country Joey V thank you high drive left Center feet racing back to the world bah the RS are National League Central Division champion in the air left center field did he did he he [Music] did WI [Music] the right fi the first round with game you believe it field wi doesn’t have a chance the r have won on a free run home run opening day by raon Hernandez strike away and outway is Homer bailing round ball to third Frasier gloves throw to first and Homer bailing for the second time in his major league career has the know oh go are you kiding me the history to seven home runs in the first game in the G win what a dream beginning to the career of J [Music] Bruce well well well what a day for the Cincinnati Reds welcome in everybody a special Friday night edition of Chatterbox Reds I’m Craig sandin joined as always by Nick Kirby and I guess I’ll call special guest Trace Fowler in the house you know it’s a big day when Trace joins us listen I was getting ready to take my daughter to dinner Nick texted me and said holy you know what I said what I thought he was just talking about Joey weamer check Twitter and wow the Reds sending Jonathan India and Joey weer to the Kansas City Royals in exchange for Brady singer welcome in before we dive too deep into it speaking of deep want to thank our sponsor Deep South Commodities Nick let’s give DSC a shout out yeah shout out to uh Deep South Commodities DSC is a leader in renewable commodities for biofuel production specializing in used cooking oil collection aggregation and sales visit www.de southc commodities.com for more information thanks as always to our friends at DSC hi Trace how’s it going guys here’s my concern one I don’t know if my internet’s going to hold up out here in this garage is the only quiet space that I have currently in my house otherwise if it’s not going to uh I don’t have my computer set up yet from the athletes in action I just I wasn’t expecting you know I wasn’t expecting this to be quite Frank I thought there was going to be you know some non- tender stuff oh are we going to keep espanol are we not are we going to leave espanol turns out espanol just might might be the guy I mean I don’t know I I I I uh I’m I’m I’m as always when we get on these within the first uh few minutes I’m trying to collect my thoughts as to what I want to say about all this but I’m I’m shocked I guess I’m I’m I think I’m almost more shocked than I was when David Bell got fired which was a pretty decent shock level I just didn’t see this going down especially when there was like a little bit of smoke what a couple weeks ago and then nothing happened so you’re like all right well just like every Jonathan India trade I mean we’ve been doing this for three years so I don’t know uh I don’t know if I like it I don’t know if I hate it and I also don’t know if I love it I really don’t know I I I I I uh only thing I’m gonna say really quickly before we get started I think there’s gonna be people that are gonna try to like do the whole like uh parade thing that Jonathan IND got traded and there’s gonna be some people that are absolutely over the moon pissed off or like I would say if you’re on either side of those aisles of course you can fan however you want uh I just don’t think that’s probably the proper way to go about it I mean India did give a lot to this organization uh I thought he cared and I also think that there’s probably reasons as to why the Reds were trying to move him too we can all be somewhat rational here I hope yeah I think it’s a really good point I think we should acknowledge the fact Jonathan India Rookie of the Year season gave a lot to this city and was by all accounts a leader in the locker room so you won’t hear us bashing him on this show we’ll certainly give you some facts around his tenure and we’ll talk about the move but uh this isn’t going to be a Jonathan India hate Fest by any means but before we get too much into it Trace we’re already got a 50 bomb from our guy Michael Ral he said is TR Trace laying down in front of a golf simulator does trace have a mattress in his garage I love seabox so Trace when you first joined I saw the drywall going up I thought you were fixing the wall in the basement to be honest with you I’m going to be brutally honest here you look clearer than you’ve ever looked in the basement you look great right now on the phone pictures holding up perfect so uh yeah uh thank you as always to Michael Ral for his support and to everybody else who is joining us on this Friday evening 320 Plus in the Stream already right now literally could not do it without you so let’s get into it let’s get into we got additional breaking news since we’ve gone live japo was just non-tendered oh that just never worked out never ended up paying out you know we we we were so hot so hyped and so hopeful especially Elliot for his uh 2024 campaign just never got off the ground in 2024 and uh it seems to be never gonna go back up it’s a shame yeah so a pretty eventful day for the Reds obviously today the non-tender deadline announced earlier that they agreed to deal with Santiago espanol uh at 2.4 million which is seeming huh bargain I mean he wased he was projected at four yeah so you know significant deal there probably paved the way for the biggest news of the day obviously again if you’re just joining us the Reds have traded Jonathan India and Joey weer to the Kansas City Royals for Brady singer so Nick we haven’t heard from you officially yet on this let’s get your initial reactions before we dive too deep into this deal well yeah I mean I I I’ve been a guy that said I think the Reds still need more pitching even after Nick Martinez uh I so this is a good move for that this is a a legitimate piece that can help you in next year uh this isn’t doesn’t feel like that bargain trade that I was worried about with Jonathan India where you’re getting you know Pennies on the dollar back for him I mean this is a legitimate Bonafide Big League starter League average may be a little bit better but you can never have too many League average starters and the Reds now have some substantial pitching depth um that that really will I think help carry this team so yeah I I love the move um I love that they only had to throw weamer in when we talked before he thought it’d be Jonathan any res have to throw in a prospect in I mean weer was a guy that we liked but didn’t really feel like he was in the immediate plans and if if weamer has a bad 2025 he’s probably getting cut he’s kind of on his last leg where he’s at anyway so yeah I mean this is a over on the surface without diving too deep I think this is a really good deal for the Reds yeah important to remember I mean Brady singer now four straight years of 24 or more starts uh has surpassed 128 Innings pitched in each of those Four Seasons so he’s going to bring stability so Trace I’m interested in your opinion where do you see singer fitting into the rotation today given the pieces that are on this Reds ball Club the the biggest concern I have and I hope they don’t do it because I think good organizations wouldn’t do this and and it’s just it’s a matter of what they do with Nick Martinez it depends on where he slots in and fits in if they’re going to force him to be a starter because they paid him then I guess that makes it a little more difficult to figure out where you’re gonna where you’re gonna fit uh singer in I would say he’s gonna be you know probably middle of the rotation back half obviously I don’t think it’s I don’t think it’s Up For Debate who the top line guys are and I’d also say that it gives you some flexibility with guys like Ashcraft now I know that we’re not out on Lolo obviously on this this room but if Lolo starts to struggle again or or has somewhat similar issues of putting consecutive starts together do you find a spot for him to go um in the bullpen I know we’ve pushed really hard against that in the past but again what Nick’s saying is true and what any good baseball team’s going to do is to try to make sure you have as much depth at the hardest position to find I might add like that’s the other thing that we have to understand is that from a dollar for dooll perspective um you know I guess second baseman has some value but let’s be honest as well a corner Outfield spot which is something we’ve floated in in into the idea of what Jonathan IND could be it’s just not that valuable it’s not going to be that much money on the free market and we already seen what average MLB pitchers cost us and Frankie Montas is a perfect example of that it’s kind of funny that he’s kind of somewhat I don’t I know it’s not big Le somewhat of a part of this deal in a small way um but ultimately you know I think more importantly than singer where he slots in I think it’s I think it’s a basically a trust factor that the Reds think they figured out how to manage this infield and I I will openly admit that’s a Gamble and I hope it pays off but Santiago espanol and Matt mlan you’re looking right at it and I mean unless they go out and make another deal this off season that that you you you cannot possibly be a pennant chasing team if one one or two of those guys that I just mentioned aren’t at least average or above average players in Major League Baseball and that’s the risk because one thing Jonathan India was last year is he was our second best position player and you know his defense did get better but ultimately I think if anything it just paints a picture around what this front office feels like they have as an infield and hopefully they’re right yeah two quick super chats first uh thanks to Stacy Meyers she said can we just fast forward to March thanks for everything you guys do and then a longtime supporter and friend Ricky Logan with a $5 Super Chat he chimes in and says green ldo Martinez singer louder and then question mark on Abbot and Ashcraft to the pen question mark Nick where’s where are you landing at with this uh right now in terms of the rotation where it falls come uh come spring yeah I was typing it out as uh as we were as you guys were talking to kind of put some pin to paper yeah I completely agree I I do not think I think it’d be a massive mistake and I don’t think the reds are doing it but I know a lot of people believe they are it’d be a massive mistake to say because Nick Martinez is making $21 million he has to start that’d be a terrible decision I don’t think the Reds will do it so if everyone’s healthy we always know that’s a massive if especially with with pitchers I would say now the opening day rotation would be green ldo Abbott singer and louder and Martinez would be in the bullpit but Martinez is but there’s like a 90% chance that Martinez is in your opening day rotation because the chance of all five of those guys being healthy at the beginning of the year is is not likely just that’s not how it works then you have Burns and Ashcraft as the outside and then I guess Phillips but I mean that’s nine starting pitchers the Reds used last year 11 starting pitchers that’s not counting the openers that’s not even counting the guys that they use as openers in the bullpen games you’re going to need all nine of those guys at some point throughout the year so I I love that they have the pitching depth um that’s really I think the Reds bread and butter and then they have a lot of upside offensively still I still believe in a lot of these guys I don’t think every one of them is going to come back to earth but I think there’s going to be a few that are I didn’t see that upside with the pitching where you had other guys like I don’t see Carson spers being upside next year and you know T grabbing a roster a rotation spot whereas I I can see a lot more of the upside with with offense but the red payroll is still very very small right now I mean I think we’re still probably not even at 60 or 70 million with singer I mean singer I think was what 10 or 12 and the Reds just got rid of five for India so this isn’t adding that much salary so the Reds should still have quite a bit of money to SP they already said somewhere Craig I don’t remember where payrolls not going down that was an actual quote right so they should still have $40 million to spend and that’s probably on offense and you know maybe a reliever if there’s a a good fit yeah I think the exact what was that we would be at or above 2024 level so certainly uh certainly expect some more signings the uh just to touch on what you just talked about in terms of bre singer’s contract uh he’s arbitration eligible for the next two years so he’s under team control until 2026 uh this past year he made 4.85 million with the Royals uh spot Trak has them projected at seven and a half I know that that’s uh not necessarily always true but you know seven and a half for a starting pitcher of his caliber is certainly uh a lot more valuable at least in my eyes than so they added two million they had $2 million they had two million yeah Jonathan India was under contract I think for 5 million for this year so basically added $25 million to the payroll in order to add a middle of the rotation starting pitcher that again we saw with Montas last year is gonna typically cost you twice as much as it’s going to cost with Brady singer so I mean and to have him under control for two more years is certainly a big piece to this I think especially when you’re talking about Martinez is a one-year deal with the qualifying offer and everything else so um look I think I think when you’re talking about this starting pitching and the injuries that they have gone through Nick Lolo especially uh adding more pieces is going to be key and even if that means that some major league caliber starters are in the minors to start it I think that’s a good problem to have coming out of spring training to have to figure out who actually makes your rotation Trace you touched on it earlier and I want to dive into it a little bit more uh obviously the return on this was Jonathan India and Joey weer the fact that they waited for espanol to sign today may have played a part in this we started to see reports kind of leak yesterday that this conversation was happening they announced earlier today that Santiago espinol signs for 2.4 million uh gives and again you sign him for 2.4 ml’s already under contract that two and a half million difference between mlan and India just gets shifted over to to Brady singer and you’re essentially exactly where you would have been from a contract perspective anyway um but you brought up interesting point is that you’re basically Wishing on your lucky stars that Matt McLean is healthy coming into 2024 uh 2025 traces do you think that there’s a need to add another piece to this infield uh going into 2025 even if it’s like a vet on a low spring training invite what what’s your approach to to second base well I I in order to win in you’re the Reds let’s let let’s just be honest with ourselves here they they have to they have to catch some breaks and they have to get they have to take some risks and be right and the question is where’s this team going to take risks at are they going to take a risk that Matt mlan comes back and could possibly be the player that he was for much of the season of 2020 what would that be three at this point um or do they want to RI or do they want to risk the idea of trying to go out into the market and find another again singer type pitcher or Montas type pitcher and spend the money there and not give themselves enough leeway to maybe actually go out and get a one thing we all as Reds fans want that maybe if I could pitch this for a single second and tell everybody that’s on the Jonathan India bandwagon to maybe they’ll they’ll they’ll come back a little bit to the center is that this gives the Reds maybe an opportunity to take all the payroll that they currently have and put it towards an outfield bat now who that will be it’s not going to be Juan SoDo I don’t know who it’ll be but but it gives them at least a chance to to spend what not frivolously but spend enough money to get a legitimate Outfield bat when they’re going to decide they decided you know what we’re g to take a risk that we’re g to get as much production out of espanol and or Matt mlan to replace Jonathan India we’re gonna add singer as a depth pitcher so we don’t have to go out and spend 10 15 whatever that would be20 million on a one or twoe deal let’s also remember not many pitchers are going to come here on a one-year deal um for probably what I would call you know like League average money like that you’re gonna have to overpay a little bit for a guy to come in here for a single year and then the last thing I would say is like you know what what what is it that you value the most as a Reds fan and I think personally I’m I’m at to the point now where I would love the Reds to find a way to to sh up this Outfield above all things above all things I’m tired of just the uh the musical the musical chairs or the lawn furniture or whatever Kirby always says it’s like we’re just swapping these guys out every single year and we’re begging for a guy like Jake FR to be good we’re begging for a guy like steuart Fairchild to be good let’s face it TJ fredle is not a guarantee the Outfield of all of of all of the positions is probably or all of the areas that I think this team needs to probably sure up it’s going to be let me chime in on that that payroll that you just flashed on the screen uh that that’s not the the accurate one so there’s two different ones the the smaller one that’s 62 million uh that’s the that’s where they’re at the current payroll allocations the other one is uh projection total that’s not when you see like payroll rankings it it’s the the smaller one um so it is it is currently at 62 million whatever that number is that’s not what we’re talking about with payrolls so the Reds ended at 96 last year so you’re looking at 34 million right now I don’t know when they said our payroll won’t go down if they were talking about the 96 or they were talking about the 104 which I think it was on opening day the Reds cut a little bit when they got rid of montis um at the deadline but I mean the Reds still have well over $30 million to spend I mean you can go get a third basement at an outfielder that are pretty sign ific players for 30 plus million dollars and I want add too like real quick just to clarify I think what they’re saying is yes that 62 is what’s currently like signed but that’s not including anybody that’s gone going into arbitration so if you add up you’ve got 21 million from Martinez 15 million to candelario 8 million to pcan 6.3 to hunter green five and a half now Jonathan India’s gone sudor at two and a quarter I I don’t I don’t we’re in the weeds here but I don’t I don’t think that’s accurate I think it’s it’s around 60 right now well the Baseline question is also this is what I was going to say is like who has who has the best chance to completely outperform what you pay them that that that’s what the reds are after that’s what essentially not all teams obviously there’s certain teams that could care less about money we know who those are but the reds are trying to find guys that are going to outperform what you pay them and I think the fact of the matter is they looked at Jonathan India even through arbitration and you’re not going to get a significant jump there in what you’re paying him and what he’s going to probably provide you wins above replacement it’s just not going to happen I do think there’s a chance that that could happen for Santiago espanol I know that sounds that that that could sound ridiculously stupid I get it by the All-Star break and I also think there’s a chance that that could happen with Matt McLean that’s that that’s the Baseline of all this that I would say as stupid as this sounds I don’t care what Jonathan India does with Kansas City for the most part and of course I care a little bit what what singer does but take that out of the equation the real question about this when I seen it the real question is is what happens at second base and or hopefully maybe Noel figures it out but what happens in the infield that the reds are the Reds are banking on for lack of a better term because let’s just say singer above average if not great if espanol and Matt mlan are terrible people I mean people are going to be rightful upset and the reds are going to be in a position where they’re they’re going to I mean they’re going to be in a spot they’re not going to want to be again um so you know we’ll see where the chips fall where they may but we’ve been beating the drum for a while on this podcast about maybe defense that someday will become a priority and maybe today was the start of that yeah I hope so I hope so I mean keeping espol and you know trading Jonathan India that’s a decent indication and I’m with you I I don’t I’m not you know dancing on trading Jonathan India uh I’m glad they waited and got fair value for him because it felt like there was times where they could have made a move where um they would have got less and to be honest I I think if you had traded Jonathan India last season I don’t think he would have got this big of a return I think he did increase his value some this year before we uh continue Nick I want to take a second to recognize another one of our sponsor sponsors and remind everybody in the chat that it’s okay not to be okay good friends at 988 yeah if you uh purchased a uh Christmas gift with a Jonathan India Jersey for someone you may you know want to use this hotline so you always want to remind you can call her text 988 anytime day or night the 988 suicide and crisis Lifeline is a place to get support for anything related to mental health whether it’s an immediate crisis simply wanting to find out how to connect with care or anything in between it’s a 100% confidential secure an anonymous way to reach out for help when you don’t know where else to turn to connect caller 988 or visit mantherapy.org to get help it’s okay not to be okay so Nick when we first when the Reds first hired Terry Fran cona one of the things that they talked about a lot was that he’s not afraid to make trades obviously early in this hot stove season we’re already seeing that come to fruition but again adding a guy like Brady singer potentially opens up a add moves around starting pitchers to move them or otherwise I assume that you can agree with me that this is probably not the last trade that the Reds make this off season I would I would be pretty surprised if this was the last trade um it’s not the last move um but I I think there’s still still some pieces that could be um you know moved around I I think IID said earlier in the off season I felt like one of steer or India would get moved so I think steer’s probably safe now but I do think that there is there’s another piece or two that that could absolutely get swapped um and it could be maybe not even the the Top Flight players it could be uh someone like a will Benson or in that category um that that they just move for another piece that kind of fits but I do think this will be a very active offseason for the Reds and I I would I I would set the over under at 1.5 or no 2.5 trades with major league players left this offseason okay so Trace I’ll ask you to put your GM hat on don’t necessarily need names but what is what is your focus moving forward as we go into winter meetings here in the next couple weeks and as the Reds progress towards Spring training what are your priorities and what are you trying to acquire via free agency and what are you trying to acquire via trade well I think whether you’re whether acquire it via free agency or trade trade’s the only way that this team’s probably going to get what I would consider like a a a marquee name that maybe some would would get extremely excited about and I don’t think that will that I to put it this way that’s not going to happen in the offseason I hope I’m may be wrong sometimes but I I would venture to say that there’s a possibility of that depending on how the farm system continues to progress for the Reds that they could do that at the trade deadline depending on where they’re at if they find themselves in a pennant race again I know that they kind of passed or they you know they basically decided they wanted to to Kick the Can down the road two years ago uh I don’t think they’ll do that again but as far as the off season goes to get back to your original question I already said it I don’t want to beat a dead horse but like they’re they’re gonna have to get a they’re gonna have to get a legitimate bat in the middle of this lineup and it’s gonna have to be either third base or it’s gonna have to be an outfielder and I would venture to say I would really love it to be a left-handed bat as well um because ultimately I just don’t I don’t trust many of the outfielders that we currently have although I think they have it in them I just don’t think that they’re consistent enough big league players to trust to be part of a long uh season and then the last question I guess I’d have for you guys is is like I’m not I personally and I know everyone’s gonna hate me for saying I’m personally still not to the point where I’m willing to trade some of these prospects that we’ve glamored about for a while just to try to I don’t want to say appease the fans But ultimately like I’d like to see if we have holes at certain spots and I know kill me ready for this one I’m not sure we have a hole at third base like everyone’s acting like Noel V Marte is completely dead like let’s pump the breakes a little bit on that too I’m not saying that I want to go into into opening day with Noel B guaranteed a spot but I’m also not going to sit here and act like I’m willing to move on from that and go out and trade one of my prospects for a third baseman because if we if let’s just say for instance candelario I know he’s a free agent but if we would have traded somebody away to get candelario everybody would have been jumping for joy and excited about it now look at us we don’t even bring his we don’t even bring his name up to play Third Base right now one season removed so you know things can change quickly for the better or for the worse and I would like the Reds to stay away from selling Prospect until the trade deadline to see what we actually need because we might think we need a third baseman but we really need another starter we might think we need uh uh a right fielder uh which we do but we might think we need a right fielder and before we trade somebody that is of relevance for it let’s make sure of that um so that’s my overall thoughts I’m not GNA get over the overly aggressive to try to make a move just because we think that we need to do something um this offseason Super Chat from Ryan Carroll just want to call it out real quick said I think Jake McCarthy would be a great addition the Diamondbacks are expected to uh be willing to move on from some of their Outfield Surplus uh reportedly so Ryan Carroll thinks Jake McCarthy would be a good addition go ahead Nick um yeah I agree with with Trace like that’s why I didn’t want to go like sign like some third baseman that blocks Marte or anything it’d be nice to it’d be nice to bring someone in that could play Third Base but also has the flexibility to move somewhere else if if Marte pulls his head out of his ass I mean like yeah I I don’t really want him blocked because like like you said like candalaria would have been the perfect free agent for the Reds if if they were in the same spot last year as a guy that played third base and yeah I mean two months later it’s like he can’t play Third Base anymore and the Marte would probably still even be a better option so I I don’t really want him blocked again a guy like I I’ve said several times I think Alec bow if the Reds could work a trade for him he’s only a couple more years and he can play first base as well so it kind of gives you some flexibility there um I don’t really want Spencer steer having to play third base for a long period of time I just think he’s going to really get exposed if he’s playing a premium position defensively um so I I think you kind of have to bring someone in but it’s it’s a tough spot of of of who you bring in and and making sure you don’t block Marte I think espanol is that guy right now to be honest what you just said is is is espanol like he’s not a guy that’s gonna block Marte if he plays really really well Marte I’m talking about um but he’s also a guy that can move to second base if Matt mlan gets uh injured again Matt McLean’s also a guy quite frankly that could probably move uh depending on how things shake out and and the one last thing I just forgot to mention our DH situation and or first base situation one of the two now I know C was hurt all year and I get that that kind of that mudded the waters a little like we we got to have some better production like we can’t be running espanol out there as a DH which never made sense by the way never made sense was the world’s worst thing I’ve I mean honestly if there’s anything that David Bell did that I would say hey maybe that’s why you know you got to let him go it’s like dhing Espanol was one of the all-time dumb moves I’ve ever seen well well did did it increase India’s trade value enough I don’t know dude I mean if that’s how if that’s how it goes and I guess it kind of can because I’m sure maybe not every team’s scouting you know that extensively but I I just uh he improved so much defensively we had a DHS but all because we couldn’t him out of the field no I’m not well listen I I get it’s fun but I can’t I’m not even gonna I’m not even going to entertain the idea that that was ever a good idea I I I will say I wish Jonathan any the best in Kansas City and uh you know hopefully our second base situation will will be a pretty positive one for a defensive perspective and that might be espanol it also could be mlan espanol plays third base and Noel maybe at some point figures it out I don’t know I don’t know maybe I’m a little too like just nervous here but I I kind of feel feel like I I don’t want espanol having to cover two spots that he might need to cover both right I mean that that’s kind of like like you know Marte doesn’t figure it out he needs to go to Triple A and then mlan gets hurt again espanol can’t play two spots I’m fine with espanol being the backup but there’s a real possibility that you do kind of need two spots there well the only thing i’ would ask both of you is like don’t you agree with the Reds though and if you were going to have to take a Gamble and you’re going to spend money somewhere you’re going to spend it on an Corner outfielder perhaps and a bat that worst case scenario maybe maybe one of these guys in the Outfield picks it up and you could at least DH that person um my point in saying that is is that they are gambling on the fact that they’re going to figure out between Espanol and or mlan that one of those guys is going to be Rock Solid and then maybe just maybe between Santiago mlan and Noel two of the three are serviceable enough to play on a daily basis that’s what it seems to be uh also worth mentioning Tyler Callahan was just uh uh added to the 40-man roster and protected a guy that has played primarily played second base threads had him split time in in left field was a guy that I loved but was a little bit surprising that they did add him to the 40-man roster and now when you see India getting moved it it’s a it makes sense the the the track there that the Reds wanted to make sure they protected him and didn’t let him get away so I don’t think he’s in the opening day plans but he is at least because I’m trying to think there’s not a whole lot of depth there and Edwin Ro Royo is is still a little bit away but he had a great year in between his big injury in a great spring really looked impressive in the Arizona fall league so I guess there are two more legitimate options internal that a couple months ago we didn’t really think were there quick shout out Michael rol dropping a 20 bomb uh he said when do Fergie Fowler and I get our shot to do a live stream I believe we could earn a ton of likes make Nick very nervous simultaneously PS come to my dental practice in December cbox discounts maybe a sponsorship soon question mark say no free ads but he paid for it yeah no it’s fair listen Michael rth Michael rth is not the definition of a free ad my man is uh my man is on he he’s he’s almost taking care of the payroll here of Chatterbox Reds at least on at least a a six-month basis but point to to Michael is is yeah I don’t know I mean listen I I’m uh I’m doing the best I can around the holidays here uh with with Fergie you know she’s asking for things I’m trying to make sure that I figure out how to get those things sometimes um and then secondarily to that she has a birthday that’s like right next to Thanksgiving it’s really tough for me I never really have liked that because you’re trying to balance like you know you know you want to celebrate the birthday but it’s the same day kind of as Thanksgiving sometimes so it’s like yeah I don’t know it’s tough tough uh tough holiday season for your boy here but anyway back instead he’s hiding hiding out in the garage at the golf simulator trying to get away from her well you know I was just building something in here I was trying to work and then all a sudden Nick’s my son comes in the garage he’s like Nick’s calling you and I’m like oh what happened so so I get on there I didn’t even call Nick back I didn’t even call Nick back this shows you like where we’re at right now I literally went straight to Twitter look at the notifications from the Reds and I was like holy crap what’s today’s day shout out by the way we went uh we went to about 38 minutes without mentioning Evan uh a loyal Watcher of the show this is basically uh evans’s day today so congratulations to him I’m sure he’s got right now he’s blowing out candles and singing songs but uh you know I’m not advocating for that but thankfully we don’t to see the all caps anymore uh in the chat about trading Jonathan India on a random May game when we all know he’s not gonna get traded so I guess we that chapter of Chatterbox Reds is over that’s kind of cool Evan’s gonna have to find somebody else to uh advocate for uh we we’ve talked a lot defensively about how the Reds replac Jonathan India I do want to remind everyone that he batted lead off 105 times this past season Nick what’s the lead off uh the lead off what a weird image that is for those of you listening to the podcast on Saturday morning Nick just uh put up a image of the Kansas City Royals tweet with Jonathan India and the royal blue so uh we’ll get that off the screen as quickly as we can but um Nick what’s the leadoff position look like for you in 2025 it should be Ellie D La Cruz like Ellie day La Cruz should be leading off he should be getting the most at bats Dodgers bat showy Otani first Braves bat Ronald aunia first you don’t waste you don’t waste this guy I don’t want anyone else getting an extra trip to the plate than Ellie D the Cruz so Ellie’s my lead off hitter I didn’t really I know that David Bell tried to ease him in at the beginning of the year last year and I didn’t really have an issue with that but I think this is the perfect time to bat HIM lead off and I I think Frank cona will Frank cona batted Lindor lead off in Cleveland which is you know a pretty similar comp to kind of where Ellie’s at so I think that’s your lead off hitter you stick him there and you don’t mess with him let him ride it out ups and downs he’ll be fine and no one’s in his way too like that’s one thing that I I felt every time he hits second it’s like you know I know Fredo sometimes were is a leadoff spot um maybe going back to 2023 I’m trying to think through all of it but nonetheless maybe mlan if Ellie De La Cruz leads off an inning and gets on base we all know inevitably probably what’s going to happen I I really don’t want somebody standing in front of him at second base um you know too many times when there’s a chance for him to take second base with nobody out so um yeah I’m I’m in agreement with that lead off and that that’s obviously if if he continues to progress and play well like anybody else but Ellie um I know he was a Hot Topic conversation here recent just because of the nimrods that are you know trying to find clicks or whatever they are doing I don’t know what they’re doing but um he’s a great player and I I think hopefully the city will will cool the Jets here a little bit it’s like let’s let’s let’s focus on the things that actually might matter and it’s little to nothing to do with Ellie dayl Cruz try since we’re talking about Ellie I’ll I’ll let you chime in if you have any opinion on the the podcast that Nick and I recorded last night about Ellie being Athan MVP voting and hunter green being aan Sai Young I I just I don’t I don’t I I’ll say this like this offseason I’ve been of course the toxic Trace pessimistic Trace all those things that you know everybody makes fun of I I I’ve I’ve come I’ve come to look myself in the mirror and realize that perhaps that’s the way that I kind of view these things I I I I I want to say I don’t care and I think that’s the that’s kind of how my nature is like I don’t really care what these people other these people are voting people I really it it means it means next to nothing when it comes to my fandom sure if he had an MVP type season and he finished second and I thought he deserved to finish first Maybe I would care but as far as the whole Gordon whtm thing um listen that’s just what that guy does like he’s he’s that’s that’s kind of who he is and I I think he like takes pride in it and at this point you gotta kind of respect the troll if it’s one of those things where like you just you you if you don’t know that Ellie’s not a better player than who was it arza that he put a higher or whatever it was that I seen if you don’t yeah if you don’t know if you don’t know that Ellie’s a better player and you’re just going to literally but look at his batting average and you look at his RBI and all those things you don’t watch the game and realize that he takes bases and he makes other guys make errors and he just he quite literally changes the game um on on on even things that you can’t measure and I know Nick was talking about war and how there’s quite quite literally a statistic that showcases you know whether you’re a better baseball player than someone else I would even argue that Ellie is even beyond that I think Ellie actually changes the game more than even what that statistic can even grab grasp because guys guys Rush pickoff attempts guys Rush throws we see how many times Ellie for the most part even also not to try to handicap it but Ellie also at some point would like to get a strike zone that’s worth a crap and and we don’t even you know we don’t even discuss the fact that some of his strikeouts that he that he obtains is because for whatever reason umpires haven’t adjusted the fact that he’s kind of tall um I’m not trying to make excuses for Ellie but Ellie’s a great player I’m not overly concerned about the fact that he finished you know eighth I’m also going to say about hunter green I think it’s very very very encouraging the least talked about season that was the most successful was Hunter greens from last season and I’d also say I was very encouraged by the fact that he came back and threw at the very end of the season if if he didn’t throw at the end of the season and I know people laugh at that I would be a little skeptical heading into this season but the fact that he was able to bounce back and showcase what he had shown already this year you know eases the mind a little bit so that’s kind of My overall thoughts on just the I won’t go too I won’t go too deep down in the weeds because this isn’t like certainly the primary discussion but here’s my biggest issue and I don’t have an issue with with with jetah most of the time in the troll trust me I if anyone understands clicks it’s Kirby clicks over here but here’s the issue here’s the issue the the Colorado Rocky writers they voted Ezekiel Tovar on their ballots because they represent Colorado Ezekiel Tovar has absolutely no business getting MVP boats had a sub 300 on base percentage 95 WRC plus but they did it because they’re representing Colorado geub represents Cincinnati and that pisses me off that he’s not accurately and fairly representing our star player and yes does it matter that much if if Ellie finishes sixth or seventh no I mean it is on his baseball ref reference page for the rest of Time Shows you right there MVP 8 I’d love it to say MVP 6 because the Cincinnati ryer did his damn job but it could cost him an actual MVP because this guy decides hey I’m gonna vote him second instead of first and like Joey vad in 2017 it was one guy’s crazy thing that did it so I I do think this matters and it does upset me maybe Gordon’s a maybe Gordon’s playing 3D Che while you’re playing checkers Nick and he’s worried about the arbitration years for Ellie De La Cruz so he’s just he’s he’s trying to stack the deck for the Reds I mean met d That’s a HomeTown guy I could respect that I just put your brain in a blender for about three seconds oh Nick I just sent you a link I want to pick your brain I know it’s early and there’s still a lot of decisions to be made um but today is the today is the non-tender deadline and uh I realize it’s early but any and maybe even haven’t been keeping track on Twitter so that’s why I sent you the link just in case but any names that have reportedly been non-tendered already by their team stand out to you as options for the Reds moving forward Ian jao guy would be a nice guy to get on a minor league contract um I I like Austin Hayes is interesting to me that was one earlier today um I wouldn’t like him to be option one by any means um but if the Reds did decide you know maybe to go more in on a third baseman um I think Austin Hayes is a guy that would make a lot of sense for the Reds with where they’re at um I haven’t studied him too close so forgive me if I’m wrong Brian De La Cruz of the Pirates was non- tendered he’s an interesting guy to me depends on how much looking for um what kind of guarantees um he’s another one um Sam Hagerty of the Mariners um had had a pretty good run there I think he mashed left-handed pitchers um so he’d be a guy that might be interesting um I don’t Conor Conor Capo Dylan Carlson was not in tendered I don’t know it might it might just be my my my desire to stick it to the Cardinals more so than actually being good but I uh Kyle Finnigan on tendered by the Nationals yeah that was one that was mentioned in the chat by uh Connor capito shout out to Connor for KN and ball Kyle Finnegan non-tendered uh he made he was projected at 8.6 though maybe a little bit higher than they want to spend uh on aever given the money that they have Ted tied up but yeah some interesting names nonetheless and uh some more names I’m sure that will be added to this this list before the deadline which I believe is midnight Eastern so oh no 8:00 pm Eastern uh so should be at that point where even more non-tendered names should be breaking and coming through but um you mentioned it I guess uh the two other pieces of news we’ve we’ve touched on Santiago espanol not a lot but Ian Jabo non-tendered by the Reds today Nick you just mentioned that it would be good to get him on a minor league deal uh you think that’s really istic given coming off an injury last year yeah it just depends on the Reds would know really where he’s at and it didn’t feel like he was still right at the end of the year it felt like they were kind of not forcing him but they were really trying to push him back to to get a couple chances in the big leagues to help make this decision and he he didn’t actually looked better in the major leagues than he looked in the minor leagues because he looked really bad every time he had a rehab uh game that I watched he looked a kind of was able to get through a couple decent appearances with the Reds but um yeah I mean if if if everything’s fine I’d be all for jbo I think jbo is a nice pitcher um but again the fact that they non-tendered him I’m speculating here because he wasn’t really expected to make that much money Craig the fact that they non-tendered him makes me think that there’s something else that we don’t know about with his his health sorry ER train is uh begging for a smile so I had to give him a little smile in the in the video hope you guys don’t mind uh Trace final thoughts where where are you uh now that you’ve had a an hour or so to digest a little bit any uh anything that we didn’t talk about yet that you want to chat about no final thoughts are is I’m G to go through this offseason with uh with with try to even keeled attitude I’m not going to get overly over over the moon about candelario type signings and I’m also not going to undervalue maybe Santiago espanol signings I I’m just going to let it play out I’ll be excited for March yes I I just hope that they go out and get an outfield bat if they don’t do that then I can’t really defend the front office like I have in the past um but maybe they’ll be right and one of those guys will figure it out that we’ve all said they were going to figure it out for a long time but they got money to spend and uh um the last thing I’ll say is is like not to get too deep in the weeds of of uh of the payroll and the salary cap or not the salary the lack of a salary cap Etc but you know I’m not going to throw a parade if the Reds decide to spend what they spent last year regardless a TV deal or not like they have to know deep down whether or not you know they have the same amount of Revenue that they’re going to get here soon and I don’t see why it would change a whole lot like if B Sports didn’t want to get rid of the Reds if they didn’t drop I guess my point is like from a business perspective if they didn’t drop the Reds immediately like they had of other some other franchises and the Reds were actually one of the markets that they were doing okay in I like to think that the Reds shouldn’t be losing that much revenue from the TV deal despite who they go with and I floated out the idea of them doing it on their own I knew deep down that was probably you know too little too little maybe a little too Progressive um but I still think that they’re going to have to find unique ways to to to bring in revenue and I think it’s an excellent opportunity that still exists for them to try to figure out a way to to kind of create their own stuff and even if I know it sounds crazy but like even if they did like a whole extra thing that isn’t even a part of the you know TV package as far as the games go even if they created their own like you know like I said Pay wall that had BP cams and Bullpen cams during the game stupid stuff that like there would be a decent amount of people that would be interested enough to like that’s might not be a ton of money but it’s something and um you know we’ll see if the Reds can continue to find ways to to be to be competitive I think that’s the biggest concern I have moving forward as a fan is like you know or are are these small Market teams gonna find a way to be competitive to the to the big markets because ultimately you know I know we all made fun of the Dodgers and we made fun of the Yankees and all his teams for not being able to get out of the first round from some from time to time but if they put a stretch of baseball together where where you know they’re dominating this league then it sucks I don’t else to say it I hate to be like that on my final thoughts but that’s where I’m at Brady singer in uh 2024 uh 32 starts 179.2 uh and two3 innings pitched uh 170 strikeouts a whip of 1.27 er 3.71 Nick the thing that stands out to me a little bit as I kind of dive into this is uh Brady Stinger was in the 79th percentile in ground ball rate got a ground ball in nearly 50% of his outs last year seems like the type of pitcher that would be successful in Great American Ballpark no yeah I don’t I I’ve never really bought into the the have to be a ground ball pitcher versus not I think you can kind of maybe find pitchers that aren’t as good if they’re like if you’re focusing on ground balls um the fact that Senor just been an effective pitcher for multiple years in a row fact that he’s made 32 starts last year I mean the reds don’t have anyone 100 green 26 I think is the most of anyone and it just goes lower and lower and lower so just the fact that you you know knock on W have that reliability but you know my final thought is this I mean the Reds have some really really good pitching it’s still maybe not as deep as I still would even like it in the minor leagues um but in terms of like your one through six right right now it’s as deep as I can remember a long time green Lolo Abbott singer louder Martinez remember the 20 2012 Reds won 97 games did not have a great offense they had really two good hitters Ludwick and vad everyone else was pretty average Frasier came in and was above average but that offense was not great their defense was a lot better but you can win with pitching and the Reds have the the pitching um it’s going to be important for guys like Burns maybe Ashcraft Chase Petty Connor Phillips to provide that next wave of depth because those guys will still need to be used at some point maybe even throw Carson spers into that mix as well Michael Ral uh wanted to send us off with another Super Chat $10 this time he said zebra here to make us all feel guilty Talking Heads we’re talking about giving truth serum to Cincy athletes if you could ask the uh any of the following athletes a question which would you ask uh or what would you ask them Terry Fran cona Ellie or hunter green so Nick if uh let’s say that uh Red’s Fest was happening this year and you had a credential again to interview one of those three people who would you interview and what would you ask no it have to be frank Kona I mean you know I mean no h no humble brag I already interviewed you know on green you know so um no I mean Frank K Frank would give you like I feel like the the realest answers too like he he doesn’t like have like the the Press ready like he doesn’t show up with his with his uh with his binder Trace knows what I’m talking about with his with his talking points ready to go um no I mean I think he’d be fun and I’d want to ask him my first question be what are you doing with Nick Martinez this year because that would be I think the most most interesting and then um yeah go from there I think it’s I think it’s EAS for me I’d ask Ellie a simple question and as long as he tells me the truth he’d be good and I’d ask him if the Reds have come knocking on his door and if if uh if there’s any interest at all and I think uh I I I hold I still hold this to to this day I I really do think um that we gota we gotta capitalize on an opportunity that exists right now that is Ellie De La Cruz is on our team and uh the fact that you know I haven’t really even heard maybe it’ll come out of the the come out of the blue that he’s that he signed an extension and I know people think I’m absolutely crazy for always talking about it but um I just think if they got through this offseason and and and nothing’s really even discussed about an extension with Ellie um I just think that it is what it is and I’m not trying to be too overly pessimistic about it I just want to know the answer and I hope the Reds do know the answer that’s all certainly would be nice to have to do another emergency edition of chatter box Reds if uh Ellie De La Cruz was extended what what Nick you got more more breaking news or no no worth mentioning H poor Jonathan India is in Italy right now on vacation there was uh his his uh wife posted a picture on Instagram though yesterday of him and he was like on his phone right so yeah people were speculating that maybe he was finding out that he was going to the Royals on on x.com but uh wasn’t wasn’t V wasn’t vad like in Italy or somewhere when when they let him know that obviously they weren’t going to do the2 million he in like Iceland or something he was somewhere crazy anyway go ahead Craig no I mean it open it up to YouTube for any final thoughts if you have anything else before I wrap this up that’s it I’m good all right well look I mean we we had over 400 people in this stream for most of the night and again we say it a lot but like literally what now Nick I’m sorry sorry I I do I do I do have to no no no this is a serious one this is a serious one and I know Craig will appreciate this I have to shout out my wife I was getting ready to put the kids to bed and abandon ship to come down here to talk to you so no I I should definitely give major kudos to my wife um who always allows me to do stuff like this and chat with you sorry I thought that was a worthwhile Interruption pro pro tip Nick let’s leave leave the show with that next time all right well you know lck going on I was literally putting my shoes on to take my daughter to dinner because my wife doesn’t feel great so I’m with you uh I’ll I’ll be sure to thank her once I get downstairs because we know she’s not watching Andrea might actually be watching my wife is definitely not uh but look obviously tonight and there’s Fergie uh obviously tonight’s a great example of it but be sure to stay tuned to Chatterbox Sports all year long for the lat in Cincinnati Sports Talk chatter box Reds with Nick and Trace after every single Reds home game I’ll fill in where needed and we’ll be live with you anytime news breaks all offseason long Off the Bench with Justin Kenner in the gang airs Monday through Friday 10A to 12p Chatterbox Bengals Tuesday at 6 PM Thursdays at 7 pm and live during and after every single game all year long Chatterbox Bengals Charlie and the guys come to you after every single Bang uh Bearcats football and men’s basketball game all of this and more can be found on the Chatterbox Sports YouTube or wherever you get your podcast so for Nick Kirby Trace Fowler I’m Craig Sandlin we appreciate all of you for tuning in it’s been a great night and a great day to be a Cincinnati Reds fan and we look forward to many more Bright Days Ahead have a good night [Music]

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